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1047pm
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Posted 4:04 pm, 04/03/2018
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Did Jesus come to you and personally tell you, or did you get what you know from the interpretation of man, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Or John Or Maybe Arnold Murray
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1047pm
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Posted 3:56 pm, 04/03/2018
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How do you think a person gets to Jesus, I would say that the Lord would have to call them and take them wouldn't you?
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michaelhjsr
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Posted 3:42 pm, 04/03/2018
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Ain't No Rapture.. When you die you either Go to Jesus or Outer Darkness. When Jesus comes in all His Glory your flesh body is destroyed. Your Soul will Convict or Reward.. Judgement Day is The day of Conviction or Reward. Matthew 16:27 John 5:24
Read Luke when the question of the Resurrection Luke 20:27-47 . When Jesus was Crucified. Jesus said what to the man that was crucified with Him. You need to learn from Jesus not Paul . You take verses from letters of Paul's to make your christianity... Jesus not Paul sign The Covenant.. Read The Gospels According to Jesus Christ not Interpretation of man...
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1047pm
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Posted 1:43 pm, 04/03/2018
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Your understanding of the Bible didn't come from you reading and asking the Holy Spirit to teach you, it came from you reading and following Arnold Murray and his teaching. That is why you can't explain anything in the Bible except a few verses that you repeat over and over.
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michaelhjsr
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Posted 1:29 pm, 04/03/2018
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IF YOU SPENT AS MUCH TIME READING THE GOOD NEWS AS YOU SPEND READING PAULS LETTERS YOU WOULD KNOW THAT ALL SOULS BELONG TO GOD AND WHEN THIS LIFE IS OVER IF YOU FOLLOW JESUS WILL GO TO JESUS .. BUT THOSE THAT DON'T FOLLOW JESUS WILL BE IN DARKNESS AWAITING JUDGEMENT... THOSE THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WILL RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE... BUT TO THOSE THAT ARE IN DARKNESS WILL RECEIVE THE SECOND DEATH...
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1047pm
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Posted 12:59 pm, 04/03/2018
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This is my personal belief, that the soul of man and the spirit of man does go back to the Lord when a person physically dies, we know that the body goes back to the earth. In that sense it is possible that a person who has accepted Christ as Saviour would be with the Lord as soon as they pass here. I don't think that the judgment seat of Christ is a judgment of guilt or innocence, we have been judged as guilty before we accept Christ, and have been made righteous by the Blood of the Lamb of God. It would be more of a reward for our stewardship on earth after we are saved that we give an account for. The judgment seat of Christ will be fearful to some who were slack in their stewardship to their Lord.All mankind that refused God's redemption through Christ will stand in judgment at the great White Throne to give an account of why they refused God's own Son who gave his life for them. They will be reserved unto judgment until that time.
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HaHavishnu
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Posted 11:45 am, 04/03/2018
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1047, I have often pondered exactly what happens and where the soul resides. Is Judgment immediately following one's death? Is there soul sleep? Many often misquote Paul where he said in II Cor 5: [8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
They try to make this verse say that when one dies they are immediately with the Lord. However, Paul was simply stating he would rather be with the Lord.
But the following verses should be contemplated.
[10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. [11] Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.It is taught throughout Baptist and Protestant churches that only the Bride of Christ will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ however, what Paul states here it seems ALL mankind will stand.
What is your thoughts?
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1047pm
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Posted 9:56 am, 04/03/2018
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michaelhjsr (view profile) | Posted 8:44 am, 04/03/2018 | If you die without Jesus you go to darkness and torment until Judgement.. |
Do you really believe that the Righteous Judge of all the earth would cast someone into darkness and torment before he judged that person, then bring them out and judge them? What if his judgment found the person not guilty? What does he do, say I am sorry, I made a mistake? Are you sure you know who God the Father Is?
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1047pm
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Posted 9:29 am, 04/03/2018
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michaelhjsr (view profile) | Posted 8:44 am, 04/03/2018 | The Rapture lol ain't No such thing. When A person dies with Jesus. They go Directly to Jesus to wait for Judgement Day. If you die without Jesus you go to darkness and torment until Judgement... Repent and Pray the you are not in The Second Death. |
Your future looks really bleak, you have judgment waiting for you either way, and if your good does not outweigh your bad, it's the pit for you.
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HaHavishnu
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Posted 9:26 am, 04/03/2018
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If you go back through the thread, I lay it out pretty plain. The 70th week has been separated from the other 69 for no reason. This was created by Dispensationalists who created a new theology in the 1800's. They say the Church is a parenthesis between the 69th and 70th week because they use eisegesis to inject things into scripture that aren't there. In reality, the 69th week ended and the 70th began when Christ was baptized by John in the Jordan. 3.5 years later He laid down His life (the midst of the week, Daniel 9:27) thus tearing the veil of the Temple in two and abolishing the OT system of sacrifice. Christ's death was once and for all. It started the New Covenant and two(Jew and Gentile) became one through Christ. 3.5 years after that Stephen is stoned and Paul is converted taking the Gospel to the gentiles.
Dispensationalists say that the "tribulation" will be when God will once again turn back to Israel yet, they they won't admit that it is a different means of salvation than what the Bible prescribes. They also try to say that the OT salvation was through works. It's always been through faith, i.e. Hebrews 11. In the OT it was faith looking toward the promise of the Cross as the NT is faith looking back at the Cross. It's the same faith and it ALL revolves around Christ.
Tribulation is also not wrath. Dispensationalists preach that the 7 year tribulation will be a time when the wrath of God will be poured out on mankind. No where in the Bible does the word tribulation(s) (which occurs 26 times) does it mean wrath. All but two of those instances it applies to the saints.
Since the Jews rejected Christ, read the end of Matthew 23, their fate was sealed and they were ultimately judged in 70AD.
Here is a perfect illustration from Jesus of exactly what happened: Matthew 21:[17] And he left them, and went out of the city into Bethany; and he lodged there.
[18] Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
[19] And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
[20] And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
[21] Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
[22] And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
[23] And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?
[24] And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
[25] The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
[26] But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
[27] And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.
[28] But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
[29] He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
[30] And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
[31] Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
[32] For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
[33] Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
[34] And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
[35] And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
[36] Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
[37] But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
[38] But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
[39] And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
[40] When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
[41] They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
[44] And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
[45] And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
[46] But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
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michaelhjsr
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Posted 8:44 am, 04/03/2018
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The Rapture lol ain't No such thing. When A person dies with Jesus. They go Directly to Jesus to wait for Judgement Day. If you die without Jesus you go to darkness and torment until Judgement... Repent and Pray the you are not in The Second Death.
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sparkling water
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Posted 8:15 am, 04/03/2018
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How can you say that a tribulation will not happen?
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HaHavishnu
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Posted 7:56 am, 04/03/2018
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Dispensationalism - championed by John Darby, is the root of the problem for the rapture theory. While many in dispensationalism and covenant theology believe in a future tribulation(which will not happen) those who believe in dispensations of the Bible clutch dearly to their rapture theory.
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WestEnd
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Posted 6:47 pm, 03/22/2018
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Proponents of the doctrine of a pre-Tribulation Rapture claim that it rests on Scripture and has always been a part of Christian teaching.
The truth is that it dates from about 1830 and was largely the creation of John Nelson Darby, a one-time Anglican priest and founder of a sect called the Plymouth Brethren.
He contributed much to the dispensationalist scheme, and in particular he was the first to include the Rapture among the catalogue of phenomena of the last times.
The Rapture’s recent origin is one of the things which should make us skeptical.
Neither the Apostles nor the Fathers expounded any such teaching
(nor, for that matter, did any of the notorious heretics of the past).
Even Darby’s circle, although they claimed to find support for their teaching in the Bible, did not maintain that they had arrived at this doctrine through study of the Scriptures,
According to its supporters the pre-Tribulation Rapture is an extremely important part of the Christian message. Yet it was unknown before 1830.
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WestEnd
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Posted 6:42 pm, 03/22/2018
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These ideas are popular with groups who are enchanted, even obsessed, with speculation about the Second Coming and who have convinced themselves that they see in current events signs that His return is near.
These speculations form part of a broader ideology called “dispensationalism.” Dispensationalists come in all shapes and sizes and what we say about one may not apply to all. Still we can list some general characteristics which virtually all dispensationalists share.
The name comes from their division of history into eras or “dispensations.” They believe that the Bible outlines the whole course of mankind’s religious history. Each stage in God’s program is a dispensation, and in each dispensation God relates to the world and His chosen peoples in a different way.
Some dispensationalist schemes encompass all human history; others include only Christian history since the time of Christ. Most often these systems are based on a symbolic interpretation of the “letters to the seven churches” of Revelation 2 and 3, with each church standing for the Christianity of a particular period.
(Since dispensationalism is Protestant in origin its “Church history” is strictly Western. The dispensations take into account almost nothing of Orthodox history after the period of the early councils which we share with the West.) The dispensational system includes the future as well as the past. Thus dispensationalism presents a detailed program of events leading up to the Second Coming. Two of the events in this master plan are the Rapture and the Great Tribulation.
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westend
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Posted 6:38 pm, 03/22/2018
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cynicaljoe | Posted 4:49 pm, 03/22/2018 | First of all putting religious interpretations on GoWilkes is sure to lead to agreement and consensus, so with that in mind just a couple of observations. I Thes. Ch 4 verses 16-18: 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. |
........our evangelical or pentecostal neighbors speak about “the Rapture” as one of the events leading up to Christ’s Second Coming. By this they mean the physical removal from earth of the true believers in Christ in preparation for the “Great Tribulation,” a seven-year period of unparalleled calamity which will herald the end.
(A few advocates say that the Rapture will follow the Tribulation. Most who believe in it, however, contend that it precedes the Tribulation.)
The Rapture’s purpose, according to its advocates, is to safeguard the righteous during that horrible time.
Its most familiar champions are Hal Lindsey (author of The Late, Great Planet Earth and other books), John T. Walvoord (of Dallas Theological Seminary), and the late Cyrus Scofield (author of The Scofield Reference Bible)......It sells books......that much is true!
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WestEnd
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Posted 4:54 pm, 03/22/2018
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Darby apparently espoused this idea of "The Rapture" as early as 1827.....less then 200 hundred years ago!......wrap your minds around that number!
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WestEnd
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Posted 4:49 pm, 03/22/2018
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......So we all know the "word" "rapture"(in itself) is not found in the bile......yet it is taught to millions.....At the moment, Eastern Orthodox churches, many branches of Protestantism, the Anglican Church, and the Catholic Church do not believe in the Rapture.
Amongst those who do believe in the Rapture, meanwhile, the exact details of the event remain quite a mystery. But some leaders do go into specifics �" even setting exact dates when the Rapture will happen...... now do you "Get It"?
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cynicaljoe
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Posted 4:49 pm, 03/22/2018
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First of all putting religious interpretations on GoWilkes is sure to lead to agreement and consensus, so with that in mind just a couple of observations.
I Thes. Ch 4 verses 16-18:
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Just going to point out a couple of items: The meeting of the living and the saints risen from the dead is to be caught up "in the clouds", "in the air." Not a word about the Lord setting foot on this Earth again. No mention of any kingdom in Jerusalem. The time spent with the Lord from this point is to "ever be" with the Lord. Not 1000 years. I don't believe I interpreted anything; just reading. The only place you're going to get RAPTURE is OUT of the Bible, because it surly isn't taught IN the Bible. Also the last verse says to comfort one another with these words, not to scare someone or to twist into some book or movie..
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WestEnd
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Posted 4:44 pm, 03/22/2018
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and now we have this......Scofield's text displays his personal notes and explanations right next to the King James translation of the Judeo-Christian Bible......
The proximity of Scofield's notes to the religious text no doubt lent credence to his words, especially in a world lacking widespread communication systems.
As individuals emigrated to the United States in the early 20th Century, this helped spread the belief that Darby had already put in place, during his visits to North America......
all of this is just the tip of a very big iceburg.....this just goes to show how a man or woamn at the right time and place can sow seeds that engulf millions over centuries......with anyone ever asking......WHY?
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