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Jimbojolly
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Posted 6:01 pm, 05/20/2019
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Hereto, maybe you too can give a reasoned response? Or maybe you're just too far up on your special high horse?
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HereToOffend
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Posted 3:50 pm, 05/20/2019
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Jimmy, any time you want to give a reasoned response, this thread is open for the foreseeable future.
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Jimbojolly
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Posted 3:33 pm, 05/20/2019
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HereToOffend, (TROLL) with your opening insulting statement you just negated Sgt's specific request for this thread. Let's see if we can refrain from playing the typical identity politics troll-fight game for just one thread and have an honest discussion.
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sgtkracka
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Posted 3:27 pm, 05/20/2019
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aficionado also brings up a good point......60's-70's hippies are not the same as 90's hippies.....and neither group of hippies are the same as modern day liberals.
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sgtkracka
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Posted 3:16 pm, 05/20/2019
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here to offend....i've never been all on one side or the other.....i agree with most everything of what you listed and always have....it's just in the 90's i was a teenager, and certain things mattered to me more than they do now.....i've never agreed with abortion, socialism, big government, gun-control, or open borders...and i've always been pro-military of course....but back then , the issue i cared most about was the environment.
Also the repubs back in the day were a little too out-dated on social issues.
I have christian values, but i was also all about free speech, free love, free religion, , ya know just everybody getting along and being good people.....my thing was if you're not hurting me or anyone else, who cares?.....being a liberal in the 90's was the same thing as being a hippy......so i identified as a liberal because back then, you could identify as one ideology but still share beliefs with the other one and i was pretty much a hippy who just had conservative values.....or a conservative who was also a hippy.....however you want to say it.
I guess you're right....it all depends on the label....that's just what i called myself back then.
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sgtkracka
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Posted 2:56 pm, 05/20/2019
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hangs let me re-phrase.....i AM making generalizations....but i'm not saying everybody on the left is guilty of that generalization....if a person is trying to make an overall statement, then you kinda have to generalize....everybody knows that and knows that not everyone falls under those criteria, but that's kinda understood and i shouldn't have to say it as a disclaimer before every single statement.
Again, i'm not here to play semantics so i appreciate your one post, and i thank you for bowing out so we don't turn this into an illogical, convoluted series of mental gymnastics just to see who can post the last jab.
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HereToOffend
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Posted 2:55 pm, 05/20/2019
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Hangs has already tucked tail and run.
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HereToOffend
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Posted 2:53 pm, 05/20/2019
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Sgt, don't expect the libs to give you a discussion. Outside of trying to pick everything apart in an effort to sidestep, you won't find them carrying on a rational conversation. Being the basement dwellers they are, they're not conditioned to having a typical conversation. Now they'll band together in a an effort to flame this post.
I must say that I don't necessarily agree with you that a 90' liberal is today's libertarian/conservative.
I am as follows: Christian White Male Fiscally/Socially conservative Pro-life Pro-2nd amendment Pro-Constitution Secure Borders Anti-racism(and there is no "reverse-racism", it's all racism) Limited and small government Lower taxes Don't attach us unless you want to be obliterated. Otherwise, we shouldn't go starting wars.
I have been this way my whole life and don't recall many if any 90's liberals sharing this view.
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sgtkracka
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Posted 2:40 pm, 05/20/2019
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and my problems with republicans......
there's really only 2. .... The environment and weed:
1. As a 90's liberal i'm all about having a healthy ecosystem.
I think we should take action to save the planet but i think we're totally doing it wrong and arguing about the wrong things. I think desertification is the real problem and not fossil fuels.
My focus would be on re-greening the deserts of the world and not on fossil fuels.
2. Cannabis-- Legalize it......this is inevitably going to happen, as even the repubs are finally coming out of the dark ages on this issue...., but they're not getting there fast enough for my liking.
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hangsleft
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Posted 2:40 pm, 05/20/2019
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2. Victimhood/outrage culture: This is the left's bread and butter. Generalization. Your entire post was generalization. This will be my last comment on this thread. It is disingenuous at it's best.
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sgtkracka
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Posted 2:21 pm, 05/20/2019
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hangs, swcy, and jimbo
i'm not trying to generalize the whole left. Nor the whole right. if i had to label myself, it would call myself a right-leaning moderate libertarian.
So i don't want to start a game of semantics where i have to quantify and qualify every single word.....so i'll say this...
Yes, there are extremists on both sides and neither are good.... but ....i feel that the extreme left is, overall, more representative of liberal ideology and the democratic party than alt-right is of conservative ideology and republicans.....if that makes sense....it does to me.
The alt-right is pretty much condemed by most everybody on the right and left. I don't see as much distinction on the left, between the main left and extreme left....in other words, we put our loonies in the back of the bus....yall are letting some of yalls loonies take the wheel.
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sgtkracka
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Posted 2:10 pm, 05/20/2019
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Jimbo- there are a few things but the my main 3 are as follows.
1. the socialism thing. I don't understand all the complexities of economics but i do believe that, in general, less government is better because the government generally sucks at doing most things. Also i don't believe in stealing from successful working people to pay for people that aren't willing to be productive. The more people you have in the cart, the less people there are to push it. I know these ideas have always been around but they seem far more prevalent now, so i guess i'm claiming radicalization by volume and prevalence.
I believe in helping those that truly can't help themselves but i think that getting free stuff just creates dependence on the system and promotes laziness......history should have taught us by now that simply throwing money at problems doesn't work and actually creates more problems than it fixes. LBJ's model cities is a prime example of that.
2. Victimhood/outrage culture: This is the left's bread and butter. Safe spaces, trigger warnings, patriarchy, white privilege, racist, sexist, bigot, h*mophobe, islamaphobe, rape culture, trans-phobia ......everybody on earth is a victim except for straight, white, men. I'm all for people taking responsibility for their own lives. Most people in America have a chance to better themselves....but many don't, and like spoiled, entitled children, they want to blame everybody but themselves......and the leftist politicians are always ready to throw straight, white men under the bus as the boogey-men who are causing all of the problems. The left is actually the reason that racism still exists, And i feel like they are the primary reason why the country is so divided. They keep everybody outraged over one of the many "isms", blame it all on white men, and then use that to pander votes from people who can't see it for what it is.
3. ....this is really a continuation of #2....Social culture on the left has become militant......in america you have the right to free speech. And you have the right to be protected from harm, but you don't have the right to not get your feelings hurt....but i feel the left would enforce that by law and violence if they had their way....they've just gone off the rails with the social justice thing. College campuses are caving in to leftist extremism and so has big tech and social media.
I"m also staunchly pro-gun but not much has changed with the left on their views regarding that....they've just become more vocal about it ....and they've embraced the dirty tactic of villainizing anyone who is pro-gun as not caring about dead shooting victims.....which is really just an ad hominen attack on a whole group of people.
Next i'll go over my issues with the right/repubs but i'll break this up and put it on another post.
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chendo
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Posted 1:39 pm, 05/20/2019
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Chendo
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Posted 1:39 pm, 05/20/2019
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The "far" of either party are the most likely to attack, and the easiest to target.
I can be conservative without being "far right"
I can want all kids to be fed in school without being "far left, bleeding hearted"
Most if us live lives of understanding and reasonableness...until we get into an online political debate
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hangsleft
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Posted 1:26 pm, 05/20/2019
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How have we become "radicalized"? Is it because there are a few that have views to the extreme?
Is that only a Democratic party issue?
Let's see if we can refrain from playing the typical identity politics troll-fight game and have a honest discussion.
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aFicIoNadoS
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Posted 1:17 pm, 05/20/2019
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Those hippies of the 60’s are in no way connected to modern liberals. Hippies didn’t trust the government at all. They saw the government as the oppressor. While they may have been activists, they didn’t think the government was the solution to most problems. Most hippies migrated into the GOP because of their belief unless government
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michaelhjsr
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Posted 1:00 pm, 05/20/2019
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Socialism finished with the New Deal with FDR... The Government is your friend. It will feed you clothe you house you doctor you. Even give you a slave earners wage. Got to give government credit though. It makes sure it gets the ones with God given talents indoctrinated into their liberals Socialist ideas. Yep what happened to living without Government interference..
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shouldawouldacoulda
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Posted 12:48 pm, 05/20/2019
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The far right is also comfortable incorporating white nationalist views in its ideology. Maybe it’s always been this way. I don’t hang out with them.
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shouldawouldacoulda
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Posted 12:44 pm, 05/20/2019
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Jimbo’s right. Saying the left is more radicalized now than it was is disingenuous.
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NChillBilly11175
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Posted 12:34 pm, 05/20/2019
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The message of true Libertarianism hasn't changed much since WWII which is fiscally conservative government spending, sound monetary and sticking to the Constitution. For this they were deemed almost a cult back in the 50s and 60s and to some degree still seem to be thought of as a cult more so than a political orientation/class. The far right has pretty much stayed the same too: kiss up to the evangelicals, war mongering and keeping the MIC wealthy. The liberal Democrats are as they have been ever since FDR: big government, hate the rich and tax everyone to death and also keep the MIC rich and war mongering. It is only the far left that seems to have lost any and all connections between reality and fantasy, common sense and sheer ity.
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