Transgenders using shower rooms
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shouldawouldacoulda
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Posted 4:10 pm, 07/23/2019
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"Why should Rosey change her gym just because a Trans feels like a woman and wants to use the women's locker room?"
Because if that's the policy, that's the policy.
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shouldawouldacoulda
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Posted 4:07 pm, 07/23/2019
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Why did you call me a hypocrite for allowing you to draw a conclusion?
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Hillary is a murderer
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Posted 4:06 pm, 07/23/2019
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Anti: You're correct that Rosy doesn't feel comfortable changing with a transgender. But that's all that you got right. It's clear you didn't read much of the thread, nor do you understand the issue.
It has been shown as fact that this isn't a law, but instead her gym (presumably the YMCA's) policy. If she doesn't like it, then she should either not use their locker rooms or leave the gym altogether. I, personally, do not knowingly give my money to businesses that use my money to support ideologies that I disagree with.
It doesn't matter if it's the law or even if it's YMCA policy. The expectation is if you go into a locker room that is clearly marked "Women" that you will be in a room with other women. That's a reasonable expectation. Why should Rosey change her gym just because a Trans feels like a woman and wants to use the women's locker room? That's taking away Rosey's rights in favor of another group of people.
It has also been shown as a fact that there is a similar number of people that have XXY chromosomes or other intersexual abnormalities as there are people that identify as transgender, proving that this isn't a mental disorder or, at least in the majority of cases, isn't just playing pretend.
If they have male parts they are male. If they have female parts they are female. That's a scientific fact too.
It has been my personal opinion (I don't recall who agreed or disagreed) that the law should stay out of it altogether and leave it to each individual business to set their own policy. If they DO get involved, though, then it should be to require an abolishment of communal bathrooms and locker rooms altogether, recognizing that it's no safer for someone (especially children) to be alone and potentially naked with any stranger, regardless of gender.
I would say that it has been the hypocritical right's opinion in this thread that we should just ignore all of the rapes and assaults that have happened in communal bathrooms and locker rooms, and instead make the issue about limiting the rights of others based on non-conformity. I say that this is hypocritical because Conservatives traditionally argue in favor of fewer laws and less government interference in our lives, yet here they are, again, arguing for even more laws to regulate what should be a business's policy. I never said anything changing or adding any laws. To me it's very simple if you have male parts you use the male lockers, if you have female parts you use the female locker room. Rosey has a right to use a locker room as it has been designated not as someone wants to feel it should be used. Unless you agree you are accommodating the Trans over Rosey and taking away her rights in favor of the Trans..
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Hideously Terrible
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Posted 4:03 pm, 07/23/2019
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My conclusion that you seem to agree with is that by keeping men out of women's showers the chances of sexual assault are lessened. I went on to say that (referring to your posts) that if men were not permitted in the women's showers they would be safer than churches.
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shouldawouldacoulda
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Posted 4:02 pm, 07/23/2019
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Actually, I'll answer other questions quite graciously. But on that topic I need to understand why you're upset that I let you draw a conclusion on something I said.
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shouldawouldacoulda
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Posted 4:00 pm, 07/23/2019
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If you want me to answer any questions, you'll have to explain first why you called me hypocritical for allowing you to draw conclusions about something you admit I actually didn't say. It seems rather childish that other people have to agree with you, or else they are hypocrites.
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antithesis
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Posted 4:00 pm, 07/23/2019
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Antithesis: What would one have to fake? With absolutely no standard all a person must do is say "I feel like a woman." and he or she has complete immunity from prosecution. Certainly there are other ways to commit a crime but when there are no standards the pervert isn't committing a crime. Oh, he might have to tell a falsehood but many is the man who has lied to a woman to get his jollies.
As far as I can tell there's currently no law on it, but I can imagine that if a straight man were to enter a women's locker room and started to get aroused then it would be quickly noticed and he could easily be charged with sexual assault.
But there's no record of that ever actually happening.
In this case, the YMCA's official policy is:
According to the YMCA, individuals must use the bathroom they prefer as indicated by the gender they used on their membership application. This means that an individual would not be allowed to use the bathroom or locker room of the opposite sex unless their membership application lists the gender they identify as. http://www.puyalluppost.com...olicy.htm/
But there's no real way to prevent someone from just lying on their application, which takes me back to my suggestion of abolishing communal locker rooms and bathrooms altogether.
I should also mention that, after graduating high school, I've never once used a communal locker room or shower. And have no plan to.
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shouldawouldacoulda
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Posted 3:57 pm, 07/23/2019
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Is it your conclusion that your 3:50 analysis is a common occurrence?
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Hideously Terrible
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Posted 3:56 pm, 07/23/2019
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Shoulda: You have yet to refute my conclusion. Do you agree with it?
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Hideously Terrible
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Posted 3:50 pm, 07/23/2019
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Antithesis: What would one have to fake? With absolutely no standard all a person must do is say "I feel like a woman." and he or she has complete immunity from prosecution. Certainly there are other ways to commit a crime but when there are no standards the pervert isn't committing a crime. Oh, he might have to tell a falsehood but many is the man who has lied to a woman to get his jollies.
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shouldawouldacoulda
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Posted 3:46 pm, 07/23/2019
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Just out of curiosity, how am I hypocritical in allowing you to come up with whatever conclusion you wish?
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shouldawouldacoulda
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Posted 3:45 pm, 07/23/2019
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Perhaps there was some miscommunication between Rosy and the establishment. Rosy could ask again whether the establishment is following law (incorrectly?) or policy. Than she could re-determine her membership status accordingly.
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Hideously Terrible
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Posted 3:44 pm, 07/23/2019
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Actually, it is your hypocrisy that disappoints me. I quite enjoy communicating with people who disagree with me. They challenge me to test my own beliefs and on occasion they manage to point out the errors of my ways.
Oh, by the way, what was your conclusion about the dangers of church, men, family reunions and mixed dressing rooms?
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antithesis
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Posted 3:43 pm, 07/23/2019
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As it is we have no standard for what "transgendered" really means. The condition is based on how an individual feels. My fear is not that the actual transgendered male will commit a sexual assault (though it happens) but rather that perverts will take advantage of the confusion and prey.
It is true that there's no standard, and I agree that this is part of the problem. The business doesn't know if the transgender is taking hormones, how long they've been taking them, or what their genitalia actually looks like. I believe that Affy has posted threads in the past showing transgender people that look remarkably like the gender they identify with, but still have the "wrong" genitalia.
But saying that someone will fake it just to get some free peeks is beyond silly. As I've shown before, it would be incredibly easy for that pervert to set up hidden cameras in the women's locker room and see anything he wants with virtually no risk. Why would someone go through the trouble of calling attention to themselves by pretending to be transgender in public, let people see his face, all in the hopes of women changing in front of him?
Don't you remember the movie, Porky's?
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Hideously Terrible
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Posted 3:39 pm, 07/23/2019
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Antithesis, on 7/17/2019 at 9:00 Rose stated that she was told "they [the facility] can do nothing because of the law." Whether the facility is misinterpreting the law or is trying to placate a customer we don't know.
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shouldawouldacoulda
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Posted 3:32 pm, 07/23/2019
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Your disappointed that people don't always come to the exact same conclusions as you?
I honestly don't know what to say. What a lifetime of disappointment. That's kind of sad.
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Hideously Terrible
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Posted 3:29 pm, 07/23/2019
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I am not upset. I just think it hypocritical of you to disavow the logic of your argument when it doesn't work out like you had hoped.
I am not upset. I am disappointed in you.
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shouldawouldacoulda
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Posted 3:23 pm, 07/23/2019
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You seem upset that I won't stifle your creativity, and will instead allow you to draw conclusions at your leisure. It's a courtesy I've obviously bestowed upon you, yet you still seem upset that my own conclusions might run counter to your own.
Surely your happiness isn't tied directly to any assurances I may give you?
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Hideously Terrible
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Posted 3:16 pm, 07/23/2019
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Please tell me which part was the most creative. Was it the part where sexual assaults happen in churches? Or the part where men commit most of the sexual assaults? Or the part about most sexual assaults happening at family reunions? Or was my conclusion not correct in that if we keep males out of female showers we lessen the opportunity for sexual assault?
Don't quit on me now.
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antithesis
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Posted 3:14 pm, 07/23/2019
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So to summarize this multi-page topic:
BR258 doesn't feel comfortable when men dressed as women walk into the women's restroom while she is dressing.
The looney liberals believe that BR258 has no rights, the rights of the trans are more important.
You're correct that Rosy doesn't feel comfortable changing with a transgender. But that's all that you got right. It's clear you didn't read much of the thread, nor do you understand the issue.
It has been shown as fact that this isn't a law, but instead her gym (presumably the YMCA's) policy. If she doesn't like it, then she should either not use their locker rooms or leave the gym altogether. I, personally, do not knowingly give my money to businesses that use my money to support ideologies that I disagree with.
It has also been shown as a fact that there is a similar number of people that have XXY chromosomes or other intersexual abnormalities as there are people that identify as transgender, proving that this isn't a mental disorder or, at least in the majority of cases, isn't just playing pretend.
It has been my personal opinion (I don't recall who agreed or disagreed) that the law should stay out of it altogether and leave it to each individual business to set their own policy. If they DO get involved, though, then it should be to require an abolishment of communal bathrooms and locker rooms altogether, recognizing that it's no safer for someone (especially children) to be alone and potentially naked with any stranger, regardless of gender.
I would say that it has been the hypocritical right's opinion in this thread that we should just ignore all of the rapes and assaults that have happened in communal bathrooms and locker rooms, and instead make the issue about limiting the rights of others based on non-conformity. I say that this is hypocritical because Conservatives traditionally argue in favor of fewer laws and less government interference in our lives, yet here they are, again, arguing for even more laws to regulate what should be a business's policy.
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